Michael Shellenberger is an investigative journalist who has broken major stories on crime and drug policy; homelessness; Amazon deforestation; rising climate resilience; growing eco-anxiety; the U.S. government’s role in the fracking revolution; climate change and California’s fires, and now UFO whistleblowers, which he revealed in his substack article in Public. He was on the show previously to discuss his book Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All, and since then he wrote San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities. Earlier this year he worked with Elon Musk, Bari Weiss, and Matt Taibbi on the “Twitter Files”, which revealed the extent to which censorship of unpopular ideas and politically incorrect beliefs was rampant at Twitter before Musk purchased the company. In his Public Substack article Shellenberger revealed what he learned from UFO whistleblowers, which he shares with us in this episode.
Shermer and Shellenberger discuss:
- the original article in Debrief, a hitherto-obscure webzine for science, technology, and defense news
- the authors Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal
- why this story was not covered by the New York Times or the Washington Post
- whistleblower David Grusch, “a former intelligence official and whistleblower”
- Grusch’s claim that the U.S. government and its allies have in their possession “intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin,” along with the dead alien pilots.
- claims of the many types of alien ships and alien beings
- the aliens might be multi-dimensional in nature
- that there is a sophisticated cover-up by the military of which even the POTUS isn’t aware
- private contractors have had access to the alien technology for back engineering
- these claims were all cleared by the government for Grusch to discuss openly, and yet the Pentagon says it “has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently.”
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what Shellenberger’s new sources told him about Grusch’s claims (namely, that they can confirm most of them): The individuals are all either high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades each. The individuals said they had seen or been presented with ‘credible’ and ‘verifiable’ evidence that the U.S. government, and U.S. military contractors, possess at least 12 or more alien space crafts:
- “I know of at least 12–15 craft,” said one person, who said they shared the information with AARO and Congress. “Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash.”
- (AARO is the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, a DoD program established in 2022 to replace and expand the scope of the AOIMSG, or Airborne Object Identification and Management Group)
- A different contractor said, “There were at least four morphologies, different structures. Six were in good shape; six were not in good shape. There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied. There have been high-level people, including generals, who have placed their hand on the craft, and I would have no reason to disbelieve them.”
- One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that “looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns.”
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This episode is sponsored by Wondrium:
This episode was released on June 13, 2023.
