The Current State of Atheism and Separation of Church and State

About this episode:

Months after this podcast aired, I was surprised to learn that Dan Barker’s organization, the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), retracted an article by renowned evolutionary biologist and honorary board member Jerry Coyne—without consulting or even notifying him.

I strongly disagree with Barker’s decision and stand with Dr. Coyne, along with Steven Pinker and Richard Dawkins, who also resigned from FFRF’s honorary board in protest.

The trend of canceling those we disagree with is deeply troubling. As a free speech absolutist, I refuse to follow suit. Despite numerous calls and emails urging me to remove my recent podcast with Dan Barker, I stand by my decision to keep it available.

I will not replicate what the FFRF did to my friend and colleague, Jerry Coyne. Instead, I follow the advice of Thomas Jefferson, who urged us to “let friends be wrong.” I consider Dan Barker a friend and will continue to do so.

—Michael Shermer

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In this thought-provoking conversation, Dan Barker, a former evangelical preacher turned prominent atheist and co-president of the Freedom from Religion Foundation, explains the current state of separation of Church and State, the influence of Catholicism on the Supreme Court, and the ongoing debates surrounding public education and religious symbols.

Barker also discusses the legal challenges tackled by his organization, and introduces "Contraduction," a new philosophical concept that reexamines how beliefs and arguments can reverse in order and meaning.

Plus, the moral implications of belief systems and the fine-tuning argument for the existence of God, the nature of nothingness, and free will.

Dan Barker is co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, co-host of Freethought Radio, and co-founder of The Clergy Project. He worked 19 years as an evangelical minister and is a member of the Lenape (Delaware) tribe of American Indians. His new book is Contraduction.